Since it is a great deal of work to compose my own information, and others never quote a scripture or give any proof for what they say, I am going to be lazy this time and give you the information from Dan Love, a sabbatarian. I don't agree with everything that he says, but I do agree with a great deal of it, and believe that it is the truth. I may have more to say on this subject later, but I am going to let him do the work for now.
The Father and His Sons
By D. J. Love, Minister, TSN
revised 6-24-2001
refined 3-29-2007
What is the true relationship of The Father and The Son?
Was Messiah Yahshua a god, is Messiah Yahshua God or is Messiah Yahshua the "Image of God?" Did Messiah Yahshua ever claim to be a god, God or the "Image of God?" Did Yahweh refer to Messiah Yahshua, as His equal OR His image? What does it mean to be in "The Image of God?" We seek to answer these questions and more in the following message.
NOTE: "God" (Theos in Greek) is an ambiguous term, just the same as "Lord" (Kurios in Greek) is an ambiguous term. See message "Kurios and Theos"
God "The Father" is "Yahweh," and our "LORD Yahweh" is "Elohim." Yahshua is the true spoken name of the first human to be appointed as a "Son of Yahweh." Yahshua (erroneously called Jesus) is not God, and neither is he a god or God the son. Yahshua is simply "Yahweh's Anointed Messenger, Yahweh's appointed First Born Son (of many to come), the "Passover Lamb," and our "High Priest." Additionally, there is no such thing as "God the son." There is a pagan "god the son," but that has nothing to do with being a True Follower of Messiah Yahshua (see pagan photos). Additionally, the error is further compounded by the ambiguous phrase "Son of God." Before we go any further, let's establish the truth of this phrase. The Messiah was not in all reality actually born "The Son of God" from Heaven. The "First Born" is actually an appointed position of Righteous Inheritance. He was of course humanly born with the potential of becoming the First Human to become a "Son of God." But Yahweh is planning a family of "Sons," of which Messiah is the eldest or The First to be appointed this distinction. This is why the Ancient Hebrews were taught to maintain the Sacred Tradition of the "First Fruits," of which Messiah was the "First of The First Fruits." Terms that refer to Messiah's future Spiritual siblings are "The Chosen Few," "The Elect," "The First Fruits," "The Children of God," "The Bride," "The Sons of God," and even symbolically as the city in which they will exist as "The New Jerusalem." There are more terms, but I think you get the picture.
Genesis 1:26
26 Elohim said, "Let us make (physical) man in our (Righteous) image, after our likeness (as an anthropomorphism):
Right away we can clearly see that man is an image or a likeness, but the verse, also, says "Our Image." Can we just assume that the "Our" is God The Father (Elohim) and God The Son; if you do, you will be following Babylonian tradition and pagan Roman doctrine, which is an unholy mix of various pagan and pagan christian tradition. But don't just take my word for it, let's search the Holy Scripture for answers.
First of all, why don't I start with an alternate, but scriptural possibility for the "Our" in Genesis 1:26.
Revelation 4:2-4
2 Immediately I was in the Spirit. Behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting on the throne
3 that looked like a jasper stone and a sardius. There was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald to look at.
4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones. On the thrones were twenty-four elders sitting, dressed in white garments, with crowns of gold on their heads.
Here we can plainly see that there are twenty-four elders, who sit on thrones, with obvious authority given to them. Are they Gods or gods? No, regardless of their authority, their power comes from The One True God, YHWH. This is further witnessed in Revelation 4:10-11 by their willingness to humble themselves before Yahweh. However, this does not rule them out as being the "Our" in Genesis 1:26. After all, having the same Holy Spirit or Pneuma as Yahweh means that they are all of 'One Accord' and quite capable of acting with or 'On Behalf' of Yahweh; from whom they derive their power, authority, and dominion. Could Messiah Yahshua have originally been one of these twenty-four elders? No, but he is listed among them now, because he presently (and Symbolically) sits in the "First Born" position of Inheritance; just like the twenty-four elders do, only he is symbolically seated on the right hand side of Yahweh; . See Mark 16:19, Luke 22:69, Acts 2:32-35, Acts 7:55-56, Romans 8:34, Colossians 3:1, Hebrews 1:1-14, Hebrews 8:1-3, Revelations 5:8.
Did Messiah Yahshua ever claim to be God OR the Son of God (a Spiritual Image of his Spiritual parent); just the same as our physical children mirror many of our physical traits, YHWH's Righteousness seeking Children mirror His Spiritual (Righteous) traits?
In Matthew 11:27 Yahshua said that all things have been delivered to him by his Father. Which simply indicates that Messiah Yahshua does not have any power, authority, or dominion without God the Father (Elohim), and that Messiah Yahshua did not have power, authority or dominion prior to receiving the "Promise" of the Holy Pneuma (Spirit). See Acts 2:33, Galatians 3:14, Ephesians 1:13.
Ephesians 1:19-23
19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His (YHWH) power toward us who believe, according to that working of the strength of His might
20 which He (YHWH) worked into Messiah Yahshua, when He (YHWH) raised him from among the dead, and made him to sit at His right hand in the heavenly places,
21 far above all (Earthly) rule, and authority, and power, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that (Earthly World OR Promised Land) which is to come.
22 He put all things in subjection under his feet, and gave him to be head over all things to the assembly (as His Proxy),
23 which is His body (YHWH), the fullness of Him (YHWH) who fills all in all.
See, also, 1 Peter 4:11, and Revelation 1:5-6.
We know that Yahweh, The Source of True Love or Righteousness, is perfect in all ways, and is therefore worthy of being called "Good." What did Messiah Yahshua say when he was called good (or it was implied that he was good)? Did he reinforce the fact that he and the Father are not equal? Did he not indicate that he was less than God and, therefore, less than the perfection of God? Does a human being, including Messiah Yahshua, have to be perfect to be sinless (a legalistic point of view) or is it the "Intent of ones Heart" (spirit or pneuma) towards Yahweh and mankind that removes their sin? I can honestly tell you right now, that Yahweh removes the sin of all men who believe into His Holy Spiritual Attitude of Love (Seeks YHWH's Righteousness) and "REFLECT THAT IMAGE" of Righteous Love. This is what is meant by believing in God and believing in Messiah Yahshua (Yahweh's Image)! It means that it is the desire of our hearts to become like God, because we believe in YHWH's Righteousness! When we repent of our natural image of Satan (Human Nature) and take on the Holy Image of God, then and only then do we gain "Favor" in God's eyes (Grace). Only then do we suddenly have a desire to obey God and keep His Righteous Commandments (all of them). Neither we nor Messiah Yahshua had to live a sinless life through legalism in order to have our sins washed away. This is not to say that Messiah Yahshua didn't actually live a sinless life, but neither does it say that he did. Regardless, Messiah Yahshua was without sin in God's eyes, because when God beheld His Appointed First Born Son of flesh, God did not see sin, but a Spiritual Reflection of His Righteousness Seeking Spirit. It is this "Image of God" that is perfect and flawless, and not anything else! And that "Image" is an "Image of True Selfless Love." When Yahweh sees that "Perfect Image of Love" in us, though we be sinners, He sees Himself; and it is that "Perfect Image of Love" that we obtain through mirroring Messiah Yahshua, who mirrors Yahweh, that causes God to see Himself in us. This cannot be faked! God's "Plan of Salvation" is flawless and without legal loopholes! Human beings cannot love that which they hate or hate that which they love; and if they try, they become rebellious; just exactly like the ancient Israelites. See "True Perfection."
Matthew 19:16-17
16 Behold, one came to him and said, "Good teacher, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?"
17 He said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, Yahweh. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 19:16-17 (NSRV)
16 Then someone came to him and said, "Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?"
17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
When Messiah Yahshua said,"I and the Father are one?" Did he mean "One God in Two Persons" or that he was (is) the reflected "Righteous Image of God?"
John 10:29-30
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and the Father are "one" (Spiritually Married or "As One" in Righteous mentally).
Be not deceived, Messiah Yahshua never claims to be God in any scripture, but he does claim to be "One with God," meaning of "Like Mind or Righteousness Seeking Spirit" (the word 'Like' indicates a reflection), having the power and authority of God, because Yahweh gave him this power and authority. Yahweh, gave him this power and authority, because He knows that Messiah Yahshua will not abuse it or use it in any way that is not according to "The Righteous Will of The Father." It is a "Love/Love" relationship based on faith and trust; just like a marriage should be.
So was Messiah Yahshua ever God (YHWH) or a god? No, and he is not God or a god even now, but he does have the Power, and Authority of God (YHWH); and as such, he can speak for God as God's "Spokesman" or "Proxy."
Aren't all immortals actually gods? Actually no, the concept of having immortality and, thus, being a god is an ancient pagan belief. In order to be a True GOD, you have to be "Self-Existent;" and only Yahweh is "Self-Existent." Angels, the twenty-four elders, Satan, etc. have immortality, but they are not self-existent. In other words, they derive(d) their immortality through Yahweh Himself. If it were possible for Yahweh, "The Self-Existent One," to suddenly no longer exist, then all things Spiritually Immortal and physically mortal would, also, suddenly cease to exist (Deuteronomy 32:39-40, Exodus 3:14). The translation of YHWH has many meanings, of which the two most common are "I Am What I Am," and "The Self-Existent One."
Are those who are going to be "Resurrected from among The Dead" at "The Second Coming" going to become "Like God" in the same way that Yahshua is "Like God?" Yes, of course, they won't sit on a throne on the right hand side of Yahweh, but they will have the Power and Authority of YHWH delegated to them, according to the parable of the "Talents" (Matthew 25:13-31). There are those among us who will be called "Great in The Kingdom of God" (on Earth), and those who will be called "Least in The Kingdom of God."
Matthew 5:19
19 Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven (on Earth); but whoever shall do and teach them (all) shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven (on Earth).
As you can plainly see, we don't have to be perfect to be in the "First Resurrection," but we do have to be sincerely trying to become "A Righteousness Seeking Image of God" through the example of Yahshua, His "Appointed First Born Son."
So what is the true relationship of The Father and The Son?
The Appointed First Born Son of Man, Messiah Yahshua, is the "Reflected Righteous Image" of Yahweh. All of the rest of the "Children of God (YHWH)" (yet to receive their 'APPOINTMENT') will, also, be the "Reflected Image of The God of Love (YHWH)," once the "First Resurrection" or "Regeneration" takes place. Additionally, those of us who are still alive, right now, will have a "Love/Love" relationship with Yahweh through Messiah Yahshua, wherein, all of our decisions in life are based on our Faith and Trust in the Righteousness of YHWH; For it is not Messiah Yahshua who draws us to the Father, but the Father Himself; Therefore, our Faith and Trust is in Yahweh (Our Savior), but our Belief is in the "Righteousness Seeking Love of YHWH" reflected to us through the Selfless example of Yahshua (our Elder Brother, High Priest, Passover Lamb, and First Born Son of Man) whose example we desire to follow.
Note: Messiah Yahshua is our Savior too, but only in the sense the he is the "Reflected Image" of YHWH our Savior.
John 6:43-44
43 Therefore Yahshua answered them, "Don't murmur among yourselves.
44 No one can come to me unless the Father (YHWH), who sent me, draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.
Jude 1:25
25 to Yahweh Our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and forever. Amen.
Matthew 19:28-29
28 Yahshua said to them, "Most assuredly I tell you, that you (twelve Apostles, including Paul) who have followed me, in the "Regeneration" (Resurrection) when the Son of Man will sit on the throne of his glory, you also will sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 Everyone who has left houses, or brothers, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, will receive one hundred times, and will inherit eternal life.
NOTE: Messiah Yahshua is called "The Son of Man" more often (87 times) than "The Son of God" (40 times). Here are just a few of the verses in Matthew alone: Matthew 8:20; 9:6; 10:23; 11:19; 12:8,32,40; 13:41; 16:28; and 17:9 to name a few. This is significant in light of Holy Scripture that makes an indisputable distinction between "God" and the "Son of Man."
Numbers 23:19
19 YHWH is not a man, that he should lie, neither the "Son of Man", that he should repent: Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?
Did Messiah Yahshua repent? Yes, at his baptism by "John the Baptizer," who only baptised "Unto Repentance." Was he God, a god or a demi-god? No, he was one hundred percent flesh and blood, and may not even have had The Holy Spirit until after his repentance and baptism. However, he was "Set Apart" by YHWH to become our High Priest, Passover lamb, and Reflected Image of Love (of YHWH). Holy Scripture states that anyone who teaches that Messiah Yahshua was not one hundred percent flesh and blood has the spirit of the Anti-Messiah. The Trinitarian Universal Roman church and her Trinitarian protestant daughter churches teach just such a doctrine.
1 John 4:1-3
Beloved, don't believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of YHWH, because many false prophets have gone out into the world (began over 2000 years ago).
2 By this you know the Spirit of YHWH: every spirit who confesses (Strongs #3670, homologeo, enters into a marriage covenant) that (professes) Yahshua has come in the flesh (is only a man) is of YHWH,
3 and every spirit who doesn't confess that Yahshua has come in the flesh (does not profess that Messiah Yahshua is only a man) is not of YHWH, and this is the spirit of the Anti-Messiah, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already
Note: Which was when the fledgeling Universal Roman church began to evolve as The Fourth Beast. Look up the word catholic in your dictionary, it means "Universal." YHWH's true church cannot possibly be "Universal," as YHWH Himself has made it a "Select" group of a "Chosen" or "handpicked" FEW.
Little Children, Beware of Evil Masquerading as Good!
If you arrived here from a search engine or an external link
Click on the to access the Home Page
Otherwise
Simply "Close" This Page To Return To The Previous Page
Linkback: http://4seasonschat.com/index.php/topic,8180.msg96834.html#msg96834
Topic: Was Jesus God or a man? (Read 2300 times)